City Councilor Ken Cockayne said that organizers of the drive to have a referendum on the chief operating officer have now collected more than 4,000 signatures - well above the total needed to meet their goal, if the signatures hold up after a review.
There's a possible hitch, though.
Cockayne said that City Clerk Therese Pac has told organizers that the witnesses who signed the petitions -- attesting to the fact that all of the signatures were gathered in their presence -- must also be notarized.
That would mean going back to more than 100 petition gatherers and having them sign in the presence of a notary, which is possible but a pain in the ... well, you know.
Cockayne said that he's upset that the city is "changing the rules in the middle of the game" just days before the deadline.
He said the secretary of state's office told him that the law only requires that witnesses sign the forms. There's no provision for mandating that notaries are involved, he said.
It's not clear, though, that Pac or the city attorney, Dale Clift, are actually insisting that the forms are notarized.
The only reason I can think of for requiring a notary is to prevent witnesses who sign the petitions from claiming later they didn't really sign the forms. That may mean that somebody at City Hall thinks some signatures may have been gathered improperly, a problem that knocked out the most recent petition drive and caused talk at the time of the possible arrest of some petition gatherers for make a false statement.
Anyway, I'll update this when I know more.
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Copyright 2008. All rights reserved.
Contact Steve Collins at scollins@bristolpress.com
35 comments:
Thank God for Art Ward
Equally meanigful is the question: did those that signed know what they were signing in support of.
It will be interesting when the dialogue starts on the details.
I think the ground work by the clerks office is being done in advance because they are extremely untrusting of all these signatures being witnessed in the proper and legal manner and expect legal challenges to the petition drive. We have all seen these petitions left unattended all over town in the earlier stages of the petition drive. I have witnessed myself an unattended petition being signed by two individuals and then collected up by Craig Yarde shortly afterwards. I think a notorized witness signature under oath of a notory is a great idea. If someone lies about witnessing a signature on a petition under oath, and they get caught, they are getting arrested. I think the court case is being carefully laid out through the clerks office. I'll bet someone will be getting arrested for falsely saying they witnessed a petition which will then compromise the entire process of the petition. I, myself as a citizen, would like to know if we have the opportunity to view these signed petitions because I could point out one of them that was not witnessed legally.
Once the petitions are filed, they are a public document that anyone can review. But keep in mind that the clerk's office is going to need them to review the signatures for awhile.
I think what we are seeing and hearing are additional reasons why this is not a good idea.
If it was so right for Bristol, we wouldn'y be seeing the short cuts and laxness we are seeing.
If they do not know how to run a petition process, then how could they know how to run a city.
Thanks Steve for the info. By the way, do you think it is time to stop the "Thank God for At Ward" comments from posting through? They are really getting lame and old. They are definately "dumming down" your blog. They serve no purpose but to get people upset. Postings and comments like this do not advance any intelligent discussions whatsoever, even though not specifically offensive.
They don't necessarily have to be notarized. If the petitioner signs in the presence of an employee of the City Clerk, it's acceptable. Otherwise, if they sign it for someone else to hand in, it has to be notarized.
Sounds like -- now that the group has more than enough signatures and it looks like this will be put on the ballot for the voters to decide (pro or con) that someone is trying to change the rules. What's everyone afraid of? -- That the voters will agree with the idea of a COO?
Why after the signatures are all set to go now the city clerk wants all the petitions to be notarized? Unions at their best! This is nothing but acting cowardly on the city's part and frankly I think its harassment to the folks that gathered signatures. I think the the Kens and Craig should seek legal advice from outside the city atty's
Politics as usual! Changing the rules one week before the papers are handed in. Union must have gotten to City Clerk as they did with the Council and Mayor
This is outrageous! After all the petitions were signed new rules were then invoked about having the sheets notarized. I'd like to know who came up with the notary rule and if notarized signatures are required by the State. This is Art Ward at work. Perfect example of why we need a City Manager!
Dear Anonymous
Yes those that signed did know what the were signing in support of and yes some even felt that we could get rid of Art Ward. Please don't insult the IQ of the taxpayers/voters who sign for change in our antiquated government. You are acting really stupid about your remark. Get a life.
I agree that this is politics as usual,but I am not surprised.
This is yet another example of why people don't participate. Their vote doesn't count.
This needs to be put to vote. If it gets shot down, then we know that it is not wanted.
Politics as usual! Changing the rules one week before the papers are handed in. Union must have gotten to City Clerk as they did with the Council and Mayor
This information is inaccurate and incomplete. They only have to be notarized if the petitioner signs the petition they managed without witness from the City Clerk's Office.
This prevents Joe from signing Peter's petition for him and sending it in.
It's called ensuring the the rules are followed and their aren't any mistakes. After so many petitions were left unattended it's rediculous for Cockayne to get upset at the City Clerk for .........
DOING HER JOB!!!!
Another example of Cockayne going off "half-cocked".
And where was the RTC Chair, Mr. Barnes on all of this? Didn't he learn last time?
So everybody follows the rules provide by the City Clerks office and then last minute those rules change when it looks like the petition will pass. Last time with the mall petition she changed her tune right around this time also, and said every signer's Driver's licenses number needs to be recorded. I bet that will be the next criteria when after all the petitions are notarized. The rules governing this process are to vague and that is why they can changed. So discouraging!!!
The majority of these signatures were gathered at the Stop and Shop in Forestville and on RT6.
Many volunteers spent many hours standing outside holding a clipboard with the petition sheet on it. Each sheet had 20 signatures. The voluteer explained what the purpose of the petition was and had a preprinted fact sheet related to the duties of the COO available to anyone who wanted one.
No one was coerced into signing and many of the people gathering the signatures were not sure whether they would be voting for or against the COO in November when it was placed on the ballot.
The purpose of the petition was for the people of Bristol to have the right to decide if they want a COO as defined by the Charter Revision Committee.
These petitions were not left hanging around and the volunteers soliciting the signatures ensured that the people signing provided their signature, printed name, and address.
It is insulting to all involved to insinuate that they just left the petitions lying around and didn't witness who was signing the petition. These accusations are more of the same type of negativity that frustrates reasonably-minded people and turns them off to our political process and leaders altogether.
To say that the petitions where just laying around is a bunch of crap! You might as well say that every petition that ever circulates it just a petition that is laying around. Thank god this mayor will only last 1 term! Its time to bring on people that will hold the people at city hall accountable - who cares about some lousy notary stamp - sure its a little extra work , but the payout is going to be the best thing that this city has ever seen!
Where did somebody see a petition lying around? Just give an example not some rumor, tell us all where this was seen?
How about the petition from the group Health Care for all that the city council voted to support, but who knows how many of those people were actually voters or even city residents. Here is a petition that is signed by Voters in this town and it will be killed because the current elected officials have forgotten who they work for, the Taxpayer!!! Imagine all 4000 of these people voted next year and against the current people? Art Ward only got 5912 voter in the last election. Good luck next year!
Maybe Stortz wasn't so bad after all.
The Supernatural deli was one place.
Who cares about doing things legally?
Who cares what Rowland did?
Who cares what Ganin did?
Who cares what Santropietro did?
It starts somewhere, it starts at some level.
Thank God for those that are willing to stand up and make sure things are doing right, legally, done according to the law.
To all the people that are saying petitons were left unattended are totally in correct. The ones left at stores were with people that worked at the stores. Just because it was on the counter does not mean it was left unattedned. If you looked at the bottom of the page on those petition you would have saw that they were employess of the store
The city clerks job is to verify the names and that is it. If they think the law is broken they need to have the police department look into the matter per the city charter. Mrs. PAC the Mayor and atty Cliff are why out of bnounds here.
Supernatural and Ice Cream Churn.
Do I smell a law suit on the horizon....Not looking good for the city. I really hope Mayor Ward knows what he is doing. Putting this sort of thing in the paper for all to see just makes Bristol look even worse then it is already and just puts a sour taste in peoples mouth that would even think of moving or starting a business in the city.
11:04 poster
Unless the store owner witnessed each and every signature on the petition, and we all know this isn't the case because they are much too busy to do this, then the petitions are technically left unattended whether or not the store owner or whomever verifies the signature was on premises or not. This is the Job Lot petition situation all over again. All sorts of people were signing the petitions left at the cash register for weeks at the Super Natural while they were waiting in line. I am sure the 16 year kids at the register are not the witnesses to the petition. Rest assured, there will be an investigation by the Bristol Police and the Secretary of State's or Attorney General's office and someone will be getting arrested for falsefying a public document. I hope these so called witnesses know what they are doing and are not being mislead by those who do not.
"The ones left at stores were with people that worked at the stores."
HELLO? The people in the stores were WORKING. It was incredibly irresponsible to leave the petitions with them. They should have been supervised by the petition organizers, not employees of the stores where they were carelessly left. Thank God someone is trying to make sure everything is legal and on the up and up. The sloppy petition leaders certainly dropped the ball in that respect. I agree that "putting this sort of thing in the paper for all to see just makes Bristol look even worse then it is already and just puts a sour taste in peoples mouth that would even think of moving or starting a business in the city." Shame on these gentleman for embarrassing our town!
How on gods earth would you even go about trying to determine if the people who signed the petition really signed it? Wait thats Mrs.Pac's job! Next, why in the hell would someone go and sign a petition that was laying on some counter not knowing what its about! You idiots will try to do anything to keep the city the way it is.
"why in the hell would someone go and sign a petition that was laying on some counter not knowing what its about!"
~ Gee, with no one there to explain it, maybe they thought they were signing up for a catalog or a contest. Who knows? Guess we won't until Ms. Pac checks it out now because this was done so hapharzardly...and you're calling us "idiots"...Honey, you're a little confused.
"Yes those that signed did know what the were signing in support of and yes some even felt that we could get rid of Art Ward"
~ Wow, you must be REALLY popular to know 4000 people and what their motivation was for signing the petition. Oh, and what a thoughtful, intelligent basis for making such a crucial decision about our form of government ~ you want to "get rid of Art Ward." Ya, great idea! Let's just rush out and spend a fortune on a poorly thought out, potentially very, very expensive COO because a couple of boneheads don't like the mayor ~ Ah, Craig and the Kennies must be sooooo proud!
Even if a COO was approved, the result would be that we still have a mayor, and I do not see the republicans getting elected.
Republicans will be elected city wide after you see the results a COO can do for the city and your taxes!
Republicans cannot even come up with a full slate!
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